Author Topic: Renault Clio 172 sport conversion into a R5 GTT Guide  (Read 15517 times)

James5

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Renault Clio 172 sport conversion into a R5 GTT Guide
« on: 21:27, Fri 26 December 2008 »
Clio 172 N/A Conversion into an R5 GTT

Disclaimer - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21

Please note that this is a basic guide
Many thanks to Scoff and Ashy from RTOC for advise. :D

Please note that this is a guide.

Tools required

•   1 x Engine Stand,
•   1 x Engine Crane,
•   1 x Engine block paint high temp (Optional),
•   1 x Inlet cover paint high temp (Optional),
•   1 x Multimeter,
•   1 x Power probe,
•   Torque wrenches,
•   Complex set of Sockets,
•   Complex set of spanners / ratchet,
•   Set of flat head screwdrivers,
•   Set of Phillips screwdrivers,
•   5.5mm or 5 mm metal drill piece,
•   M6 tap,
•   Loctite 518 (Rocker cover sealant),
•   Paint roller brush (no you didn’t imagine it I put that as it is used to apply the rocker sealant),

Parts Required for N/A conversion,

•   172 Phase 1 or 2 Engine (Preferably a  phase 1 with cable throttle)
•   172 Exhaust manifold and down pipe (needs to be modified by cut and weld)
•   172 Phase 1 Loom -
•   172 Phase 1 Throttle Body, cable & pedal
•   172 Phase 1 ECU Demobilised
•   GTX Front Mount
•   GTX Front Mount Plate
•   GTX alternator support bracket
•   172 Radiator and fan (Can use GTT or bigger radiator  such as clio diesel)
•   172 Coolant pipes,
•   172 induction pipes,
•   172 alternator,
•   6pk850 Alternator belt
•   Sierra Cosworth external Fuel Pump
•              172 Mk1 fuel rail and regulator
•              172 Oil Filter (Purflex – same fitment as GTT)
•   Renault Type D Coolant,
•   10w 40 fully synthetic oil
•   NGK PFR6E Spark Plugs
•   Brake Fluid
•   2 meters of fuel pipe,

Initial Advice to assist with obtaining parts.
Obtaining the conversion parts may take some time.  I got most of my parts from http://www.cliosport.net or http://www.ebay.co.uk. Be very careful whom you are buying from as there are plenty of scammers on both sites.  Do not buy of people on http://www.cliosport.net or any forum site whom are just forum members and not fully paid up members make sure they have been a member for some time and are well known on the site and have loads of posts etc check with other members to see if they know or have had dealings with them.  If you do a transaction do cash on collection or Pay pal non gift payment to make sure you have some kind of security for yourself never give bank details out unless you know the seller.

Purchase an engine

What you are looking for is a 172 phase 1 engine with the cable throttle body you can use a phase 2 engine but you will end up having to soucrce parts to take it back to a phase 1 172 setup engine with the cable throttle body. (If you do not obtain a phase 1 engine like my self converting a phase 2 isn’t a problem just a little more work and slightly harder obtaining the parts).

The F4R 730 Engine –

This is what mine looked liked when I picked it up
 



After playing about and getting various parts from Renault it ended up like this (still needs some more tidying up)
 

 
Look for the normal things you would look for in an engine as you would when testing or buying a car, service history, dependant on mileage cam belts, colour of the oil, if you can hear the engine running before purchase would be good or expect to service when you buy which would cost around £100.00 to do it yourself a cam belt kit is about £100.00 to which you will also require the Renault timing tool kits for the F4r lump.

Putting the engine into the R5
In order to put the F4r lump into the R5 using the GTT or 172 gearbox it is easier to put the engine and gearbox together out of the car and then using an engine crane to get it all in as 1 unit,

Tip – remove the engine brackets and exhaust manifold, alternator and put it in the R5 engine bay you will need as much clearance as you can get so the less attached the better.

ECU
Dependant on what you want to do but if you plane to use a standard 172 ecu you will need a phase 1 version that has been demobilised with an emulator this will cost you about £150.00 to be demobilised from RStuning or ECU clinic (word of advice ECU clinic have been known to make mistakes when programming the ECU for demobilisation) . Or you can go down the route of standalone engine management such as Adaptronic, Emerald, OMEX, DTA, etc..

Standard Phase 1 172 ECU -


Demobilised Phase 1 172 ECU (emulator added)


Exhaust manifold and down pipe.
Unfortunately the 172 manifold does not mate up with the GTT exhaust system. So modification of the standard phase 1 172 manifold is required. The 172 manifold is a steel tube manifold from factory, so easy to cut up and re-route to clear the bulkhead. You’ll probably want to pinch the 172 down pipe too so you can re-jig that to fit your exhaust system.

Standard 172 Exhaust manifold


Modified 172 Exhaust manifold and down pipe


Wiring
I found when doing the 172 conversion that finding the wiring diagrams for the 172 was next to impossible but to be honest if you know how to use a multimetre it's a pretty simple loom to work out. Getting it running eventually only took about 4 wires and the rest were just gauges and lights. Remember no wiring diagrams have been used I merely used the continuity tester (on the multimetre) to find the basics needed, Permanent ecu live, ignition ecu live, cranking signal, fuel pump wire (from relay on clio phase 1 172 engine loom)  and that should be enough to run a decoded engine.

Earths (You can never have to many earths)
Rear engine to bulkhead
Front engine to chassis,
Front gearbox to chassis,
Gearbox to engine
Live's
Battery to starter,
Battery to alternator,
Battery to ECU,
Ignition live to starter,
Ignition live to ECU,

Alternator setup
On the standard 172 lump the alternator belt setup you have air con and PAS pump which I have removed and thus doing so have had to use an R5 GTX alternator bracket (can be found on the Volvo engine that use the Renault 1.7 F series lump or on a R19 16v F7p lump uses the same bracket) once I had the engine in the car I found that I had to modify the alternator bracket as it would not fit as it was catching on the front cross member.



Modified bracket to give clearance



Fuel Pump + Regulator

With regards to what fuel pump to use you will need bigger than an uprated GTT fuel pump I opted for a sierra cossie external pump started off with a standard used cossie pump only to find this was faulty so I ended up getting a Bosch 044 pump

(Pic of Uprated GTT pump (small pump in pic) against the standard cossie pump)


Cossie 044 pump


As the inlet to the cossie fuel pump was alot bigger than the GTT I ended up replacing alot of the fuel line with braided versions the fuel tank to cossie pump was a 12mm bore (original was 8mm)


With regard to Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) the GTT 1 is not up for the job again I looked at getting new but I managed to source down my local scrappy a volvo T4 fuel rail which had and FPR built on which was a Bosch 3bar jobby so some modification and the FPR was removed and is being used on the conversion.

(Pic is of Volvo T5 Fuel rail which has fpr built on)


Injector Rail & Injectors
As a rough guide to power output, take the injector flow in cc/min and divide by 5 then multiply by the number of injectors.

Example: 220cc/min divide by 5 = 44 x 4 injectors = 176bhp"

Standard 172 Injector is Green - 250cc

Volvo injector colour info
Purple 210cc
Orange 310cc
Red 315cc
White 350cc
Blue 395cc
Green 450cc

The volvo fuel rail will be modified to fit the 172 lump once I go turbo conversion.

Ok modified the fuel rail already for use in N/A form



R5 GTT fuel pump relay wire –

R5 GTT fuel pump relay –

PIN 1: (Fat white) Live wire to fuel pump (This is the thick white wire on the white plug that goes to the fuel pump)
PIN 2: (Black) Earth
PIN 3: (Brown) Rev Counter
PIN 4: UNUSED
PIN 5: (Yellow) Ignition Live
PIN 6: (Fat Red) Battery Live

172 Fuel pump relay -

Red - perm live
Yellow - ign live
white - output to pump
violet - trigger from ecu

Places to obtain car electrical bits like Auto Electric Supplies, Triggerwheels, Autosparks or VWP.

Auto Data 172 phase 2 engine loom relay position and what does what
 



Gearbox
You can run the 172 phase 1 or 2 & the GTT box, I have decided to stick with the GTT box so I can retain the original GTT dash clocks (Don’t forget to remove both the studs on the GTT box).
Ashy (RTOC) has gone the full hog and used the 172 box and even wired up a complete 172 dash into his R5.

Clutch
The standard clutch on the 172 is a 215mm version and the bolt pattern on the F crank is different to the GTT so unfortunately you will not be able to re-use your original GTT clutch and flywheel (Shame as I wanted to re-use my CTM 9 slot flywheel and helix clutch). Keep the 172 flywheel, its pretty light to begin with and takes a 215mm clutch. If you tap the clutch cover holes out to M8 then you can fit the *later* 215mm Volvo valeo clutch, it'll be pretty tough, it’s tougher than the standard 172 jobby.

Anyway for the NA conversion the Valeo / standard 215mm clutch is more than up to the job and only needs to be changed when turboing the 172 lump.

If you really want to use your GTT clutch you could find yourself a pre-1991 Volvo turbo flywheel, these were 200mm, and your GTT clutch should fit that OK.

Phase 1 Throttle Body.
(Dependants if you got a phase 1 cable throttle engine or a phase 2 fly by wire).

If you obtained a phase 2 engine and purchased the cable throttle body separately you will need to drill and tap the phase 2 inlet plenium to allow it to accept the phase 1 TB as you will notice that 2 of the bolt holes do not align up.

Tools required
5.5mm or 5 mm metal drill piece,
M6 tap,
Phase 1 Throttle Body -

 
Phase 1 Cable TB modified to fit Phase 2 plenium (Drill & Tap work)


Cable Throttle control
I found that I had the correct Renault throttle cable but it was not attaching to the original hole on the Throttle Body accelerator Cam so this turned out to be a simple remedy I just pulled the cable to take up all the slack and drilled a new hole into the accelerator cam wheel and perfect works fine.

Injector Rail & Injectors
As a rough guide to power output, take the injector flow in cc/min and divide by 5 then multiply by the number of injectors.

Example: 220cc/min divide by 5 = 44 x 4 injectors = 176bhp"

172 Lump in the R5 with GTT phase 2 gearbox



172 Rad setup in (it is a very tight fit)

Almost there now :D




Otherwise, that's it, can't think of anything else EXCEPT to say your bonnet will not close. Modification of the bonnet is required as the 172 engine is taller than the original C1J lump that was under the bonnet so either a hump is required or R5 16v humped bonnet.





Renault Part Numbers Used List –

77 00 866 483 - £2.09 inc VAT - Cable Throttle body to Inlet Manifold Plenium Gasket,
82 00 268 626 - £37.06 inc VAT Clio 172 Fuel inlet Pipe,
82 00 031 832 - £44.17 inc VAT - Upper Alternator Block Adaptor,
77 00 718 613 - £23.50 inc VAT – R5 GTX Long Zinc Alternator Bracket (Adjustable),
77 03 101 094 - £3.90 inc VAT- Alternator long bolt,
77 03 101 073 - £1.56 inc VAT - Alternator Bolt washer,
77 00 762 721 - £38.40 net VAT - GTX Front Mount
£26.00 net VAT - GTX Front Mount Plate


There are some more but I have lost the paperwork will add as soon as find.